More Interviewing Insights: It’s a big deal to you. For the agency who paid to fly you in, you may be the least important thing happening that day.

You have been planning for days.  Set aside an entire day – or two.

They squeezed you in between client meetings, creative confabs, production, billing, personnel hiccups, phone, looming deadline creative and new business pitches. 

That CD who was twenty minutes late to meet with you?  Then only stayed seven?  Probably had three other meetings run late, was backed up for a day, still looking to make the kids’ bedtime, dinner with clients, late new business pitch and/or date night with her partner - who she hasn’t seen all week.

In small shop/small market paradise, where things mostly move slower and everyone mostly goes home at five, days get jammed, too.  The three four five people you’re supposed to meet?  Things may be as busy as in a big shop.  Albeit on a smaller scale. 

A big chunk of how Interview Madness affects you, for good or bad?  How much you enjoy staring at walls, last minute punts, roll tide and agency reality.

Too much self-focus, you’ll miss even easy questions.  Lose confidence. 

Maybe even Blow It.

That job interview may be the most important thing you do all year.  Until there’s a CD/ECD/Partner after your name – it’s not likely the same for whatever agency’s paying for the trip. 

If you’re interviewing at a big shop, with several openings and several CDs/ACDs/ECDs to talk to, consider their workday context in which your presence exists.  If you’re also scheduled with HR, ADs, Account Services - pray Mercury isn’t Retrograde.

The agency is always in a better position to punt.  In your world, If ADs don’t show, you miss a big part in your decision making.  The ADs may have zip influence on the hiring shop’s.

Why am I scaring you like this?

Like everything else in life, your interview is Prospect Centric.  To a huge extent every person you do and don’t see on interview day is your Prospect.  In varying degrees, you are theirs.

If you accept this, you won’t wonder so much why your meeting with the CD was cut short.  The paranoia it could be they didn’t like you no longer has the power of your worst nightmare.  Yes, there may be some personal glitch.  Mercury could be Retrograde.

Maybe it’s just one of those days.

You’d best know how to roll with it.

The better you know your Prospect – the agency and all its players – the easier it’ll be.  It’ll unload one s***load of paranoid stress.  You’ll be able to mold the interview – no matter what does or doesn’t happen – in your favor.  The more you’ll learn.  The more fun you’ll have with it.

The more you know about what goes on in AgencyLand, the more you’ll be able to discern if it’s always like that.  Or if the agency’s having a day.  If the CD/ECD who couldn’t do more than stick her head in the door is rude.  Or if she was dealing with the madness, doing her best to keep the machine which could be paying your salary - earning it. 

Cut her the same slack you’d cut anyone you’d like to play with.  

If you’re there, they’re interested.  Seeing their needs first – in practical terms - tells you which campaigns to highlight, which part of job life to keep to yourself.

Prospect Centricity exposes an offer – accounts, money, start dates.  You will fulfill your needs/wants/dreams/realities best by seeing them through the lense of theirs.  Even if it tells you to Just Say No.

Example: 

Their need:  A talented just-above-a-Junior Junior Copywriter willing to work with X Art Director on Y account, no matter how many hours it takes.

Your need:   A salaried job with an Art Director good enough to do great work on a great account, propelling the great book you build to your next tasty gig.

Usual Junior Approach:  I want to work on your showcase account and work with an award winning/wildly talented AD and do great work for my book, win awards for my resume.

Prospect Centric Approach:  I want to be part of a great team, contributing my absolute best to an agency’s success while I grow by working within a smart, talented group so I can raise to their level.

Which do you want to hire?

You’re much more your best self when the mirror reflects your strengths through someone else’s needs.   Even if it’s only in their eyes.

Prospect Centricity.  It's not just for clients.


This entry, along with everything else published in this blog, (c)2018, Doreen Dvorin/KamikazeCreative.

Lies my interviewer told me. Three warnings from a jaded old dame. Three posts in one!

Not to add stress, but there can be untruths in what people who want to hire you say.  

They know you want a job.  You know you’re competing with classmates, other portfolio school and college grads, interns, even people who’ve been working for a while.  

Unless you’re dealing with a top tier (one w/principled management and a sincere interest in employee growth and success), top culture (ditto, + fair salaries, honest opportunities and great work) shop, you’re likely to encounter at least one of these scenarios during your career. 

Heed my cautions.* 

There are great agencies who play fair.  Finding them and getting hired is the rub. 

Lie #1:  “The work hasn’t been up to creative snuff, but we’re retooling and hiring people to change that (+/- starting with YOU).”

Change starts at the top.  Of ALL departments.  Has the CEO signed on?  Everyone on the Account and Tech side?  What’s happening to the creatives who’ve been there all along?  Are established and new clients on board?

Ask to see current work.  Talk to new hires and old hands.  Ask to see what they’re working on now.  How the approval cycle works (if they gripe about how hard it is to get things approved, has new Creative direction made a difference?). 

If they’re starting the new creative push with YOU – a Junior – who’ll mentor you?  Good people take lesser jobs for many reasons.  Health insurance, location, money.  Hold judgement for jury duty.  If it’s the same creatives who’ve been there all along, they may not – or surprisingly may – be the mentors you want.  

Do your homework, find out.

Lie #2:  “We can only pay X now but raises and bonuses come fast and generous.” “People work here for less because we do such great work.”**

The national average raise is 2%.  Wages are historically depressed.  Pay varies with city, agency, accounts, perceived abilities (remember, it’s all subjective) and what you let them get you for.

LA shops pay less because everyone wants to live there.  SF, Boston, NYC shops pay more, but have you tried to find – and pay for – an apartment there? 

If a great creative shop expects you to work for less - up to you.  The one time I took a pay cut for creative reasons I got burned.  

If they’re small, have small accounts and nobody’s getting rich, it’s one thing.  If all the money rises to the top, something else.  (One former student tells tales of a Chicago shop customarily ripping off employees with a When we get rich, everyone gets rich lie.)

Everything is negotiable, but you have to appear to be trying to figure out how you’ll survive on that salary, then make them want to bump it up.  Unless you negotiate it beforehand and get it in writing, review dates are too often the least important thing HR and CDs remember. 

How much of a raise?  Remember that 2%.  Negotiate a minimum or range up front.  Get it in writing.  You may also want to negotiate a new title with that.  Salary ranges often tie to titles.

Bonuses?  Sound good, but they’re a better deal for the agency.  Everything is based upon salary.  Benefits (profit sharing, 401K, etc.), future raises, the salary at your next job.  A bonus may be a quick shot in the financial arm, but when you negotiate your real raise, you’ll be working from your original, lower salary, without the bonus.

Lie #3:  “We’ll start you out in the social media pool/worst account/your worst media nightmare, but you’ll move up soon.”

Suspend belief.  Once you prove you’re good at something no one else wants to do, the likelihood of quick change is slim.  I’ve worked in shops where there was an account hierarchy – start on the worst account, move on when someone else was hired.  But that required a vacancy or new business win.  

Former students – writer’s writers, good creatives, smart strategists – became so valuable in the social media pool they hated, they were stuck.  When they interviewed elsewhere, they had nothing else to show. No surprise, they decided advertising wasn't for them.

If the agency starts Juniors off on junk copy, but competes teams on the good stuff, you’ll get a chance to shine.  But will you have time to work on it?  Or will you be so busy with the stuff no one else wants to do, you’ll have to work nights, weekends if you want to be in the running?

I don’t want to scare you. 

I want you to be aware – but don’t want you to think that’s the way it works at all agencies.  It’s not big agencies or small agencies.  It can be any shop, any candidate, any time.

There are as many honest, fair dealing shops as those taking advantage.  Between an agency with good personnel policies and those selling ice to your Eskimo are many versions, both good and bad.

How do you know which is which?

Ask.  Ask your network of Circus grads.  Check the apps and sites populated by present/past employee critiques (with a jaundiced eye – some are strictly sour grapes). 

Want to ask someone who works there, but don’t know anyone?  Check for work you like, note the creatives responsible, email them.  Don’t start with questions about whether they’re working at an offending shop.  Start talking about their work, how much you like it, what did it take to get it produced, can you show them some work for critique? 

Don't like anything anyone's done?  Shoot for the Juniors.  They're closer to what you'll deal with. 

Build a relationship BEFORE you need one.  You’ll get all the dope you need.

I know the pressure of student loans.  The pressure of actually doing the work you trained for, have come to love.  The pressure of finally getting your foot in the door and being able to afford craft beer.

I understand the fear of blowing an interview.  

My job is to open your eyes, arm you for what may – or may not – lie ahead.

The key to interviewing, negotiating, developing almost second sight into anyone you deal with?  Prospect Centricity.*   The same Prospect Centricity that’s key to great creative.  Know who you’re talking to.  Who/what you’re dealing with. 

Above all, don’t be afraid to ask.  Don’t be afraid to negotiate.  

It’s their job.

But it’s your future.

*See That Recruiter isn’t looking for another BFF, 8/21/18.

**I’ve written extensively about salary negotiations.  My thoughts – and methods – have been published in CMYK and How to put your book together and get a job in Advertising, 10^th edition.

This post, as with everything posted on kamikazecreative.blogspot.com, is ©2018, Doreen Dvorin/Kamikaze Creative.

That Recruiter isn’t looking for another BFF.

Here’s a bit of Doreen Heresy.  Recruiters are not your friends. 

They're your Prospects.

Recruiters work for Ad Agencies.  On staff or independent, no matter how much they (seem to?) like you, your work.  No matter how much you have in common.  Their job depends upon your wanting their job.  Whether they want you - or not.  

I know recruiters who champion candidates they believe in up the agency creative food chain. Some are personal friends.  Some professional friends.  Some, respected colleagues I’ve developed open channels with over the years. 

They’ll go to bat for a candidate they think a really good fit.  But no matter how friendly, how encouraging, their first loyalty is to the agency, their “client.”  Not to you.

Hopefully, you know the questions they can’t ask – and you shouldn’t answer.  Marital status.  Romance.  Religion.  Sexual orientation.  Gender Identity.  Ethnic revelations.  Children or no?  

Your medical history?  They're thinking how it can potentially affect the working of the Creative Department or the cost of agency health insurance. 

That rotten – or golden – childhood?  Unless you can discuss it in terms of why it makes you their best option, what about it you’ve parlayed into understanding Prospects, concepting, being a writer’s writer, etc., don't waste valuable interview time on it?

Ego Centricity vs. Prospect Centricity

I’m not saying turn into ME ME ME I’M SO GREAT Ego Incarnate.  No one likes that.  As my friend and very smart ex-ad guy Marshall Pengra once told my class, “People hire people they like.”  Not people who pontificate, talking only about themselves and how great they are.

Sell your abilities and what makes you different – ergo better – than others.  Just do it through the mirror your Prospect – the Recruiter, CD and everyone else you talk to – uses to reflect qualities they like and need.

I’m not saying turn into a sycophant.  I’m saying talk from their needs and how something about you makes you the best qualified to fulfill them.

Prospect Centricity, from the Job Candidate POV

Creative Strategy and Prospect Centric Thinking gives you all the tools you need.  

Research agency work, personalities, awards and portfolios  (especially of anyone you’ll be interviewing with), accounts, account changes – recent and historically.

Find out what they’re looking for, for which clients, CDs, ECDs, Group CDs, ADs, ACDs, account teams.  What’s the work like, both agency wide and on the specific account with openings.  What’s the culture?

Mine the web, trade magazines and most importantly, your amazing network of Circus grads who work there now, interviewed there before you, passed through on the way to their next job/promotion.  

Mine instructors – we may have friends and freelance clients you may conceivably be interviewing with.  Or who can put in a good word, put your book in front of the right people when the time comes.

Once you have a handle on the shop, who works there, what they’re looking for, you can see – and interact with – the Recruiter and agency as Prospects.

Like all Prospects, you want to establish honest relationships between people who like, understand and respect each other. 

When you’re asked “What do you want in your first job,” filter the question through your Prospect Centric training (not trained that way?  Be sure to catch my next Circus Kamikaze Creative Strategy workshop.).  Do it right, you won’t answer your new “friend” with what YOU want.  You’ll answer from your Prospect’s point of view.

Instead of “Great work that’ll get me my next award/job/etc.,” you want to work for an agency whose work and people you can contribute to.  The team you want to help build.  The new creative spice you hope to bring to their already well seasoned table.  How your Circus training made you ready to think on your feet, hit the ground running.

Instead of “A place with good mentors I can learn from,” discuss bringing fresh, strategic creative skills for the good of agency and client.  How your unique creative point of view meshes w/theirs and can sweeten the strategic and creative pot.  How you want to get better - by making the work better.

That year you took off between college and Circus/job search?  Not the fulfillment of a lifelong dream to see Europe.  A chance to study the global market as individual and collective Prospects.  To understand what drives and motivates people with different experiences and cultures than you.

Those dogs/cats/kids/horses/parrots you and the Recruiter love in common?  Not an invitation to go off about the dog who’s so smart, so loving, so amazing….blah blah blah blah Time’s Up.  An opportunity to relate to that Recruiter where he/she lives. Making the brief but unmistakable point you’ll more than fit in.

Your job is to establish a benefit for your Prospect.  

That bubbly, personable (and often sincere, if somewhat skewed) Recruiter is just that.  Your Prospect.  As is everyone else you talk to.

I’m not suggesting you stay closed and defensive, hiding yourself in an effort to be Exactly What Is Needed.  You’re not All Things to All People – try to be, you become nothing.

I’m telling you to present yourself through the needs, wants and insights of whoever is interviewing. 

If you don’t, someone else will get the job you want.  

All you’ll be left with is hindsight.  

Or a whole lot of confusion – We got along so well, I thought we’d hang out after I moved up there – what went wrong? if you’re not.

This post, as with everything else published in this blog, (c)2018, Doreen Dvorin/Kamikaze Creative.

Thoughts on becoming a Writer’s Writer vs. being an Idea Person Who Can't Draw. Inspired by at least a half dozen former students looking for jobs.

Ever wonder why there’s so much bad copy/writing out there?  How whoever wrote that site got hired?  Why print copy is so gawd awful?  Why a smarter strategy might have lifted that ho-hum creative to new heights – why did they choose such an obvious strategy, anyway?

The answer lies in the writer.

This from Nick Cade, Freelancer to the Stars:  Sometimes the weaker strategy wins because it’s the best written strategy presented.

What’s Nick talking about?  How clearly, how cleverly, persuasively, understandably a proposed creative strategy is written.  How easy it is to understand and therefore - to sell.

While you may admire a competing’s team superior strategy, you still want to sell yours.  Still want to win the assignment.  Without writing chops to fire up a lackluster strategy, it’s not going to happen. 

If a better written, if less compelling, strategy beats yours, you've let down more than your book.  You've let down agency, client and ultimately - prospect.

A friend/former student is interviewing.  A Writer’s Writer, she can tap into any prospect’s inner vernacular.  Can detangle the most convoluted input, turn it into a cohesive discussion.  Keep things interesting until the reader arrives – surprise! – exactly where she wants them.  Better, she can marry that copy to her prospect and strategy with killer ideas, paying it all off in the end.

Not all copy is copy.  Some copy is content.  Some agencies want her to write.  Some want her for concept.  Most want her for both.  She’s in such demand as a freelancer, she’s taking her time choosing the right spot. 

Another friend and former student, one with great ideas but without the writing chops, is a big hit on the idea front.  But has limited his market because after three lines, his writing doesn’t hold up.  Everyone loves the work, his strategies and ideas get him hired – but then he struggles fleshing out the campaign.  Effectively labeling him a disappointment for a good portion of his market.

What’s up with that? 

The changing nature of the business.

Beginning Copywriters (and those longer in the tooth) are also Social Media and Content writers.  Bloggers.  White Paperers.  And oh – they also do ads, tv, radio and traditional media.  But few do just the traditional ad side of things.  Today, there is so much more.  (On the broadcast side of things, it’s not just TV – it’s also online and on-demand video, with in depth shot directions everyone must understand.) 

Without a firm grasp on how to write so readers don’t stop, viewers don’t move on, the strictly Idea Writer will struggle or worse – see other writers take their ideas and make it theirs in longer form parcels of the what was once their conceptual message. 

What I’m seeing is nothing less than a newly minted return to the days of Writer’s Writers.  We who once toiled over endless brochures (which fell out of the strategic and conceptual thread carrying the current ad campaign) and other long form print copy challenges – now toil over websites, microsites, blogs and the errant print piece which do the same.

If you can’t sustain the idea, the headline, you’re in trouble.  If you can’t sustain the concept, you’re a letdown.  If you can’t engage and clearly communicate information, persuade and motivate, you’re cutting off a good percentage of your opportunities.  No matter how good your ideas are.

No one wants to be trapped in the social media pool.  Yet without a solid idea behind your solid writing skills, that may be your fate.

Today’s successful Copywriter has to have both.

Why?  Love it or hate it, a Copywriter isn’t just an Art Director who can’t design/draw.  A Copywriter is a writer, should be able to write whatever medium is required.  Should be able to devise new ways of communicating information, benefits and features. 

Polish off your Kamikaze Copy Sins.  Learn to write short in long form. 

Pushing your ideas is one of the most obvious ways to rise in this crazy business of ours.  Knowing how to support ideas regardless of form, regardless of length, the harder if equally important foundation of all we do.

We aren’t just Copywriters anymore.  We don’t just present concepts, we communicate.  To sell our ideas.  To persuade Prospects to come over to our point of view.  To motivate them to the attitudes, actions and truth of what we write.

This is, has always been, a subjective business.  A CD may or may not like your ideas.  A good CD will always appreciate your skill as a writer. 

It’s not called Copyideaing.  It’s called Copywriting.  Like songwriting, the words without the music fall flat.  Without the words, all you can do with the music is hum.

Which comes first, the words or the ideas?  What got you thinking about becoming a Copywriter in the first place?